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2016 update: Aha, you noticed?! Welcome. Yes, we wanted to bring the site back online again, mainly because it's so packed with articles and information. It will be a work in progress for some time, as we changed web platforms and all sorts of tech stuff. So, a lot of links are hard-coded to old Wordpress-style links... just awful. But, in time we'll get all of it back in shape. For now, enjoy clicking around and reading!

Jim here... Exactly one month ago today, I announced my intention to do a month-long trial of a low-fat raw vegan protocol largely based on the well-known 80-10-10 diet. I posted a half-way point update on May 15th, and now here we are at June 1st already. So, are you ready for the thrilling conclusion

As I've stated before, I went into this experiment rather hard-core, with one full week of zero overt fats, and then gradually introducing a few richer ingredients (although keeping within the 10% fat ceiling). I found much of the past month to be an exercise in restraint and self-control, similar to the issue many people face when going raw while the rest of the family is still eating cooked foods.However, it got significantly easier as time passed.

For what frustration there was (which wasn't unbearable), I felt it in two areas, mostly: (1) packaged raw foods, and (2) nutty spreads.

The packaged raw foods always called to me away from home, while in our food co-op. Over the past several years, I'd come to really love a number of raw snack items, such as Gopal's Power Wraps (esp. the Mexican or Curry varieties), which always offered the same tear-and-chew satisfaction as, say, a nice piece of licorice or maybe a salty beef stick. Or Love Force's breads and brownies, which are all simply divine. But, upon analyzing the labels of these and other raw snack foods, I always found at least 50% calories coming from fat, if not much more. It bummed me out a bit, but I passed on them.(Note, however, how these cravings could fairly be categorized as emotional eating or habitual eating. We can become, I've learned, just as hooked on raw foods as we can on cooked ones! In the end, perhaps this isn't so bad, as it's certainly better for you to eat a raw brownie than it is a conventional chocolate bar.)

The nutty spreads presented an at-home difficulty. We quite often would enjoy nut dips as major portions of our meals, or at least as toppings for raw sandwiches, etc. But, with such a high fat content, I had to find another way to enjoy them in lesser quantities. The solution was my ultimate realization that, as far as nut dips and spreads are concerned, a little can go a long way when you're trying to stick to a low-fat protocol. So, for instance, when we would make nori wraps for lunch, I would take just a small amount -- less than a tablespoon -- for the entire wrap instead of a more liberal amount. I found that this moderate approach offered the satisfying creaminess I desired, yet kept me within the limits I'd set for myself.

Another difficulty was my not wanting to be a burden on others. I tried to make sure no one else felt deprived from what they wanted simply because of my own self-imposed restrictions. So, I always encouraged Wendi to eat/drink whatever she wanted (e.g., a smoothie with almonds), even if it was something I wouldn't eat/drink along with her. (She's also been very supportive of this lifestyle, by the way. For example, when we served guests beet pasta with a cashew-based alfredo sauce yesterday, Wendi whipped up a delicious fat-free marinara for me!)

I also learned during this period that the difference between higher-fat and lower-fat recipes need not be so dramatic.? In other words, if you're trying to be a low-fat raw vegan, don't overlook all of the normal raw foods recipes books in your quest for ideas. Rather, take a look at existing raw recipes, and find ones that might also taste pretty good after eliminating or reducing the fatty ingredients. Here's a huge success story along those lines:? Wendi invented a new smoothie about a week ago. However, it contained almonds, so I stayed away from it (aside from taking a small sip, just to taste it, and realizing it was impossibly identical to a rich chocolate shake).Instead of feeling frustrated about it, I decided to try making one without the almonds. Guess what ? It totally rocked!?

So, what's my final word on 80-10-10 ? Sure, I'll go there now. But first, I want to stress again that this is only representative of my own individual opinion. I encourage everyone to find what's right for you and your body. I think most of us believe that the more raw we eat, the better. But, once you're raw, there are still many, many lifestyles to try within that broad realm. Each of them seems to have the ability to heal, rightsize, and optimize your body.So, try them and monitor your body's reaction!

As for me, I'm kind of feeling super-charged lately, both mentally and physically.? For example, I'm more motivated than ever, lately, to get back into my regular running routine (and the dog seems very happy about this, as she's my running partner). And, when I do go running, the running seems effortless and the recovery time is almost instantaneous. This wasn't an immediate experience for me, though. I do recall in a prior update reporting increased energy, but this is really something different that's just now taking form -- and it's significant and positive enough that I need to stick with it to see how far it goes. So, I'm definitely extending my experiment for now.

One more point:? Greens.? My goal was to eat a pound of greens per day. As my daughter might say if asked to gauge my success rate on this line item: "Fail!"? It's true, I did struggle with getting enough greens, erring on the fruitarian side of things perhaps a bit too much. But, I'm working on that aspect of this existence, and do hope to get more greens going forward. Sometimes getting enough could have been a simple matter of my not forgetting to add greens to my morning smoothie. So, I'm going to keep on keepin' on here for a while, with the goal of "more greens," and I'll let you know perhaps in another month how I'm doing!

Original Comments

Below, we have included the original comments from this blog post. Additional comments may be made via Facebook, below.

On June 1, 2009, rick wrote:

Just so you know - Dr. graham in his book recommendeds on average between 3-6 perent of calories from Greens and/or celery. He has also stated 2% is adequate and that 3% he feels is the desired mark. If you then do the math you may find, based on your calories, a pound of greens is more than you actually need. Everyone says more greens, but usually very few know why or what greens even accomplish in this diet plan in the first place. In addition, although I'm not an 8-1-1 follower anymore, alot of people miss the concepts he presents. You may want to get his book and read it with the concept in mind and not mimicking all the suggestions or guidelines he has. Hopefully that helps or makes sense if you plan to continue :O)

Also, no reason to give up the other items you mentioned, you can still follow 80-10-10 and do this ;O)


On June 1, 2009, Jim Dee wrote:

Thanks, Rick. I'll consult the book again -- we've had it for years -- to read up on Dr. D's advice vis-a-vis greens. BTW, what was your experience w/ 811? Just wondering how it went for you, and why you ultimately stopped following it? -Jim

On June 2, 2009, sheryl miller wrote:

Great work Jim!
I am being questioned from my friends about being a vegetarian with comments like
you need to eat meat for your protein etc!
So after much thought and guidance from my inner knowing and my sister -in -law who is vegan, I decideded to follow my needs, beliefs and walk my talk and those that follow, follow.
I am glad I have you , Wendi and the other members of Pure Jeevan for inspiration to keep me on my path.

Much thanks for everythng you do!
Sheryl Miller

On June 2, 2009, rick wrote:

Considering I followed it pre-Book and even before the term 80/10/10 was around, I followed through information passed around the internet. I eventually got frustrated with the lack of produce in our area and eventually just forged my own path. Still close to 80-10-10 in some ways though, being high fruit and low fat still.

The mistake I feel was the information I followed, although basically correct, like today was translated online and came off rather strict and I blindly followed along. Not till I recently read the book(i like to read) a few times and spoke with Dr. Graham did the lightbulb truly go off with his approach.

On June 2, 2009, Joanna_Steven wrote:

Hi Jim!

Oooh my comment disappeared when I logged in. :(
What I was saying basically is that eating a pound of greens is important to get all your minerals, since in a higher fat diet, nuts also help provide 100% of the mineral's RDA. Fruits are awesome for the vitamins, but not so much for minerals unfortunately. I don't do 811, but I try to get 8 ounces of greens in my morning green juice, then 4 ounces in a smoothie and 4 ounces in a salad.

I'm glad you're feeling energized!

On June 2, 2009, Jim Dee wrote:

When I read "lack of produce," I thought, "I wonder where he lives." Then I remembered you're on Twitter & looked you up. Youngstown, Ohio? Wow, that's close! I can definitely relate, especially where organics are concerned (though we do have a fairly decent food co-op here in Pittsburgh). But, a general lack of quality produce is one big reason (among a few major ones) that Wendi and I plan to settle out West somewhere -- where we can grow as much of our own as possible, and over a longer growing season. Another thing that interested me in your bio there was the running. I do seem to have more energy on this low-fat protocol, so it seems a particularly suitable fit for athletic types. Now that I think of it, I'm not sure I've met many 811ers (or general low-fat RVs) who aren't naturally active. I wonder if that's coincidence... (Of course, Gabriel Cousens seems highly fit and is reportedly very active as well, so who knows...) -Jim

On June 2, 2009, Jim Dee wrote:

Thanks, Sheryl! You know, providing inspiration is what we're all about, and we're *so* excited to be *so* close to being able to do that full time (if only our home would sell soon!). Yeah, you'll definitely be questioned, scrutinized, peer-pressured, etc. It happens to everyone -- whether it's protein, B12, calcium, concern over weight loss, etc. For protein in particular, I usually just ask them where a gorilla gets its protein. That usually confuses people enough to end that part of the conversation. But, if they persist with it (as some of my office workers do, for example), I'll explain how fruits and veggies do in fact contain adequate protein. And if they persist further, I may finally start in with the whole China Study angle (though I usually save that for a last resort). Are they questioning you about *vegetarianism*, or about raw? It seems like vegetarianism in general is so wide-spread these days, I'm surprised anyone still has a problem with it. But raw is so esoteric, even many vegetarians would probably question it at first.

On June 2, 2009, Jim Dee wrote:

Agreed. That's an important point that I should have made in my 811 reports. So thanks! I also believe that growing your own and using wild edibles is a great way to increase your mineral intake, so I'm very excited about settling on some land out west where we can grown and forage our own greens!

On June 2, 2009, Lynn wrote:

Hi Jim: I don't think that your increased energy is a coincidence at all. When I briefly was strictly 80-10-10 I felt the most energy and pure happiness that I have ever felt on raw. I stopped because I couldn't easily stay 80-10-10 and feed my husband who wanted high fat raw. Lazy - I think I'll use you as an inspiration and try again.

Also, don't forget that Dr. Graham says that exercise and rest are equally as important as eating low fat raw food. So keep running and remember to rest - sleep regenerates us.

Thanks for everything - this site is wonderful.

On June 2, 2009, Redpumkin wrote:

Nice job Jim! It doesn't sound easy to eat like this. Thank you for sharing your experience with it.

Are you familiar with Dr. Robert Young and his book "The pH Miracle"? I would love to hear your opinion on what he has to say about being alkaline. I am working my way through the maze of what the best raw diet to follow is. I also have a child with autism, who has yeast and bacteria issues. It's hard that there are so many "experts" and they don't all agree.

It's really helpful when someone like you tries out a diet, and lets us know your results. So thank you so much for that!

On June 2, 2009, Jim Dee wrote:

Thanks, Lynn. I, too, believe in getting adequate rest. That's a huge topic, I think -- and something we'll surely get to sooner or later, as it relates well to health and to raw foods. Your words are inspiring to me, too, as I don't really know too many low-fat raw vegans. So, it's nice to get to know a few and hear positive stories! Let us know how your next try goes! -Jim

On June 2, 2009, Jim Dee wrote:

I have heard of Dr. Young. I was just reading about it recently (perhaps while we were posting a "My Raw Story" post ), but am not familiar with the particulars (other than assuming that the premise has to do with optimizing one's pH). Most of the major raw health books discuss acidity vs. alkalinity, of course. So, I assume Dr. Y's book really focuses on this. I'd definitely be interested in learning more at some point. BTW, I'm also a big believer in the concept of non-food items being able to contribute to one's pH (positively and/or negatively), which is an important tangential subject areas to raw foods that we will certainly cover from time to time here as well. So... think happy thoughts, too! :-) -Jim

On June 2, 2009, Joanne wrote:

Hey Jim,
When I went raw several weeks ago I jumped in to 80/10/10 on the advice of Rene Oswald. She recc I read Doug's book ( which I did) because she had cured a 30 year systemic candida issue by 6 weeks on 80/10/10. When I initially bought my vita mix several months ago daily green smoothies had me sick with "yeast" symptoms within 7 days. I was so disappointed and felt I would not ever be able to drink green smoothies. With Rene's help and Doug's book I managed to go 80/10/10 with no overt fats for almost 3 weeks. I did suffer a lot of bloating and indigestion initially and my skin felt more dry than normal. I also went thru 2 weeks of feeling cold to my core. I am tiny to begin with, started 80/10/10 at 5'4" and 123 lbs, and dropped 11 lbs in a few weeks. The weather here was still cold too, which did not help. Anyway, after 3 weeks I found myself slipping a little at supper ( some days I was just SO hungry). Rene suggested I reserve my fat intake until my last meal of the day and not have any fruit afterward and that this would likely have to be a lifetime habit for me. So far her advice has rung true. I juice every morning and then do a large green smoothie, more fruit later, maybe some more fresh juice again ( I make green juices only but they have an apple or two in them) and a raw supper with a raw fat ( I discovered nut pates this week as I made them for my kids. OMG are they good! :-) Doug's comment on fats and elevated blood sugars is so true. Only when I never eat fruit with or after a fat do I feel great. You remember that beautiful layered cake I made and Wendi posted on the blog ? A BIG piece of that one afternoon blew my yeast issue out of the water by the next day because of the nuts (fats) and fruit sugars combined in a very concentrated form. Rene says she allows herself such an indulgence once or twice a month at potlucks but other than that eats fairly simply. It takes commitment and it also helps to be tiny and not have a huge appetite LOL! One of the reasons I lost the weight is I just cannot get the volume of food/calories into me over the course of the day. A green smoothie fills me up for about 3 hours !Anyway, I will say that I have more energy now at 44 than I ever remember having ( and I am healing health issue so that is saying a lot - to have energy while healing) and I sleep so well now. Better than ever. I have been able to eat more fruit in the last 2 months than I have had in the last 10 years. One of my holistic practitioners who preaches a sugar control diet cannot believe that my sugar metabolism remains stable on all this fruit, let alone bananas( which I had not eaten for 3 years BTW). Going 80/10/10 was easier for me because I skipped the whole raw fats thru out the day thing:-) Those nut spreads are amazing but I think I enjoy them more because I have to wait for them. I don't plan to have them every day tho.

On June 3, 2009, Jim Dee wrote:

"One of the reasons I lost the weight is I just cannot get the volume of food/calories into me over the course of the day."

I recall reading on Dr. G's site once... Someone had asked how much one should eat on 811. He said something like: shoot for somewhere between "all you care for" and "all you can." Logically, this would be true; if you're only getting 10% fats, then you need to eat a lot of other non-fatty / low-cal foods to make up for a normal caloric level.

Anyway, Joanne, it sounds like you're doing great! Increased energy seems to be a common result for low fat RVs. And, now that you mention it, I've been sleeping very well, too! I used to have some lower back pain at night and, now that you have me thinking about it, I don't recall having it lately. (Not sure if that's related to 811, but it could very well be.)

BTW, we have an *outstanding* cashew nut dip recipe on the blog. See our post at: http://purejeevan.com/blog/p=359 where you can also see a picture of it. Lately, Wendi has been avoiding tamari/nama shoyu. So, we've been replacing that with salt. I'm not sure how detailed the prep instructions are on that post, but you also need to add water as it blends in order to achieve the desired creaminess. But, it's OH so good!

On June 3, 2009, Joanne wrote:

Thanks for the recipe link Jim. I noticed in the Cashew Cheese recipe that it does not mention to soak the nuts. Should they be soaked ?

When one talks about volume of greens does juicing count ? I rotate Spinach, Romaine, Red Leaf etc , throwing some Parsley in here and there, with a constant base of cucumber, celery, ginger root and apple. I make a large glass every morning so I am likely using two large handfuls of greens even before I make my smoothie :-)

BTW- I LOVE Parsley smoothies! Yum! Parsley, banana, green grapes and mango! I developed my love of Parsley using it in my juices for many years.

On June 3, 2009, Bethany wrote:

I'm a low fat raw vegan from the get go, and I must say, it's the only way for me!
Occasionally, I'll splurge with a nut sauce (maybe once or twice a month), but I keep my fat intake down and eat a lot of fruits and greens. I've lost a lot of weight, I have the energy to run more, I look and feel healthier, and I'm a lot happier.
Whenever I eat nts, though, I tend to feel very sluggish. And my nut sauce splurges are probably going to go out the door what with all the raw nut controversy(most nuts, whether they say raw or not, are now pasturized). And that's fine with me. I feel so much better when I'm low fat.
Keep at it Jim, its so worth being low-fat!

On June 3, 2009, Jim Dee wrote:

Hi Joanne-

Hmmmm, you ask a tough question -- one I admittedly need to research a little more. As I understand it currently, cashews are technically different from many other common nuts. I don't believe they have the same kinds of enzyme inhibitors as other nuts. So, my understanding is that there's no need to soak them for that reason. Plus, they have extremely soft flesh to begin with as compared to some other nuts. (Making nuts softer is another common reason for soaking.) So, based on those two observations, we do not routinely soak our cashews prior to eating them. (I may look into this some more, and may update this reply if I learn anything worth reporting or clarifying. I suspect that there may be a lot of misinformation floating around on this topic, so I'll hunt for a more definitive source.)

Greens... another interesting question! I would say that, yes, juicing counts. With juicing, you're eliminating the fiber, but not the essential nutrients of the greens - -especially if you do the green juicing in the right kind of juicer. Back when I was really into wheatgrass, we bought a nice hand-crank wheatgrass juicer that *really* went to town on the stuff, giving a dark green grass juice and leaving nothing but a dry piece of wheatgrass "rope" to toss out. Right now, our juicer is put away because we're selling our home and we thought the kitchen might look bigger if we didn't have it out all the time. But, the description of your morning routine sounds divine and SO healthy. I'll definitely try that parsley smoothie sometime! -Jim

On June 3, 2009, Jim Dee wrote:

Thanks, Bethany. I also believe that the occasional splurge is within the bounds of best practices and good health. After all, it's not like we're splurging on Ben & Jerry's or something! In fact, today, for the first time in 30+ days, I decided to splurge just a little bit -- made some raw tacos for lunch. But, I'm still committed to being low-fat raw vegan overall. Even after that one lunch, I can feel a difference in how I'm a little weighted down (not too much, because I did keep my nut intake to a very moderate splurge). When you say you've lost weight, have more energy, and now look & feel healthier, I'm reminded of our "My Raw Story" series. I'd invite you (and anyone else who has an inspirational story to share) to consider penning a piece for that series. Just visit http://tinyurl.com/rawguidelines to read up on the kinds of stories we like to run.

Anyway, I too seem to operate much better on low fat, so I'm sure I'll keep to this going forward! Thanks, Bethany! -Jim

On June 3, 2009, Joanne wrote:

I was using a Breville centrifugal juicer which I upgraded too from my trusty little Juiceman Jr. a year or so ago but the basket clogs terribly despite the fact that I scrubbed it meticulously after each use. Then I learned I could use my Vita Mix for juicing. I run the veggies thru it in under 20-30 seconds and strain the pulp thru a nut milk bag. Much easier clean up and the pulp is much drier than with my Breville so I feel I am getting a better quality juice. I learned about twin gear juicers but then heard some negative things about them. Someone recently introduced me to Norwalk Juicers. Oh my ! I am going to get me one of those!!

On June 3, 2009, Joanne wrote:

Hey Jim ( and Bethany),
I would love it if someone could comment on some of the difficulties of going 80/10/10 or just raw in regards to our body adjusting. I have had a lot of problems with intestinal gas since going raw. And while it is handy to blame the dog sometimes LOL lets just say I'd rather not have this issue as it is also uncomfortable. In the beginning I was terribly bloated and gassy and while it has improved quite a bit since the first 3 weeks it is still an issue despite digestive enzymes and probiotics etc. I also fruit combine most of the time and find that helps. I was surprised because I have juiced for years and often had a very large salad on a daily basis. What I did not have much of at all was fruit, which may be the culprit.

On June 3, 2009, Jim Dee wrote:

I never used a Norwalk. But, I've definitely done the VitaMix/nutmilk bag trick many times. That also gives really good juice -- and fast. Thanks for mentioning that!

On June 3, 2009, Jim Dee wrote:

I'm not sure, Joanne. I suspect it could be a few things -- among them food combining issues or simply what your body likes and doesn't like right now. Fortunately, for me, food combining issues never plagued me as they do a LOT of people. Just today, for example, I had a ton of watermelon AFTER my lunch meal, and was no worse for it. I know that is a huge no-no according to most experts, but it simply never bothered me. (I think I've written in the past that I wondered whether this was a sign that something was actually wrong with me!) But, we're all different in terms of our digestion, and I've been getting at least a little more sensitive lately, not feeling so great after eating too much flax, for example. Also, 3 weeks is still a short time. If you're trying a new protocol, maybe stick with it longer, as it may yet improve. For 80-10-10 specifics, I'd recommend reading Dr. G's book. I'll also ask Wendi if she has any suggestions for you.

On June 3, 2009, Joanne wrote:

Thanks Jim, Actually I have been raw for 8 weeks now. The first 3 weeks were VERY uncomfortable and things have settled somewhat since then but still noxiously gassy :-) Moooooooooo!:-)